 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
||
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
| 查看: 4064 | 回復(fù): 40 | |||||
yalefield金蟲 (文壇精英)
老漢一枚
|
[交流]
波函數(shù)----并非統(tǒng)計工具而是物理真實 【轉(zhuǎn)】 已有14人參與
|
||||
|
http://www.edu.cn/ren_yu_zi_ran_ ... 111220_721232.shtml 在《Nature》雜志公布2011年最受歡迎的十大新聞中，排名第6的是： 波函數(shù)并非統(tǒng)計工具而是物理真實 據(jù)《自然》雜志網(wǎng)站2011年11月17日報道，波函數(shù)是量子力學中一個重要且令人費解的核心概念，物理學家用它來確定量子粒子具備某種特性的概率，而英國科學家2011年11月14日發(fā)表在arXiv。org網(wǎng)站的一篇論文則提出了一個新觀點： 波函數(shù)并非統(tǒng)計工具而是物理真實 由英國帝國理工學院的馬修·皮由茲領(lǐng)導(dǎo)的三人科學小組在最新發(fā)表的論文中指出，如果波函數(shù)純粹只是統(tǒng)計工具的話，那么，時間和空間中互不連貫的量子狀態(tài)都將可以相互“交流”，這聽起來有點不可思議，很難成立，因此波函數(shù)必定是物理真實。 研究人員之一、美國南加州克萊姆森大學的理論物理學家安東尼·瓦倫提尼表示：“我們的這篇論文可能具有顛覆效應(yīng)，在量子力學中，它可能是繼貝爾定理之后最重要的結(jié)論�！� 英國牛津大學的物理學家戴維·華萊士表示，這個理論是他15年的職業(yè)生涯內(nèi)看到的量子力學基礎(chǔ)領(lǐng)域最重要的結(jié)論。他說：“這一理論表明，人們不能將量子狀態(tài)解釋為一種概率�！� 自上世紀20年代開始，科學界在如何理解波函數(shù)方面就存在很大爭議。丹麥最著名的科學家、哥本哈根大學的尼爾斯·玻爾開創(chuàng)的“哥本哈根解釋”認為，波函數(shù)是一個計算工具：當被用來計算粒子擁有不同特性的可能性時，它能給出正確的結(jié)論。 |
回復(fù)此樓» 收錄本帖的淘帖專輯推薦
 淘淘 | 熱門前沿研究 |
» 猜你喜歡
食品工程專碩一志愿中海洋309求調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有8人回復(fù)
-
求調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有7人回復(fù)
-
311（085601）求調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有4人回復(fù)
-
305求調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有4人回復(fù)
-
一志愿北化085600材料專碩275|有文章專利｜求調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有7人回復(fù)
-
一志愿華理，數(shù)一英一285求A區(qū)調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有12人回復(fù)
-
289求調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有11人回復(fù)
-
生物學學碩，一志愿湖南大學，初試成績338
已經(jīng)有6人回復(fù)
-
321求調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有7人回復(fù)
-
343求調(diào)劑
已經(jīng)有4人回復(fù)
» 本主題相關(guān)價值貼推薦，對您同樣有幫助:
- 自旋電子學
已經(jīng)有19人回復(fù)
- 有關(guān)矢量場的推導(dǎo)計算過程，求高手提點！
已經(jīng)有4人回復(fù)
- 《量子力學》波函數(shù)動量和矢量的傅里葉變換
已經(jīng)有3人回復(fù)
- 波函數(shù)相位的重要性
已經(jīng)有10人回復(fù)
- VASP計算：如何處理波函數(shù)占用空間太大的問題
已經(jīng)有5人回復(fù)
- 【原創(chuàng)】并行自洽計算后得到和節(jié)點數(shù)一樣多的波函數(shù)文件wfc
已經(jīng)有4人回復(fù)
- 【求助成功】supercell中DOS計算如何得到合理的電荷密度和波函數(shù)？
已經(jīng)有3人回復(fù)
- 【求助】有關(guān)波函數(shù)復(fù)數(shù)表達式的物理意義？
已經(jīng)有15人回復(fù)
- 【分享】gaussian中得到波函數(shù)文件的方法在AIM進行下一步的計算
已經(jīng)有4人回復(fù)
uuv2010
榮譽版主 (職業(yè)作家)
- 1ST強帖: 6
- 應(yīng)助: 160 (高中生)
- 貴賓: 3.14
- 金幣: 3681.7
- 散金: 5802
- 紅花: 79
- 沙發(fā): 35
- 帖子: 4560
- 在線: 916小時
- 蟲號: 966216
- 注冊: 2010-03-09
- 性別: GG
- 專業(yè): 凝聚態(tài)物性 II ：電子結(jié)構(gòu)
- 管轄: 第一性原理
★ ★ ★
小木蟲: 金幣+0.5, 給個紅包，謝謝回帖
fzx2008: 金幣+2, 鼓勵交流 2012-04-02 10:28:18
小木蟲: 金幣+0.5, 給個紅包，謝謝回帖
fzx2008: 金幣+2, 鼓勵交流 2012-04-02 10:28:18
|
量子力學的確存在很多缺陷，比如各種徉繆，但是迄今為止的看是不可思議但是從量子力學推論出來的東東，都證明了量子力學的正確，比如糾纏態(tài)，無論多么不可思議，但是按照量子力學的推論它是成立的，這種技術(shù)并且到了實用化的階段。而違反量子力學結(jié)論的東東至今還是沒有出現(xiàn)。其實很多人都想推翻量子力學，比如愛因斯坦就不喜歡量子力學，但是他的所有質(zhì)疑都是推動了量子力學才的發(fā)展。 個人認為，科學爭論是要以現(xiàn)有、已經(jīng)掌握的實驗現(xiàn)象、實驗數(shù)據(jù)為基礎(chǔ)進行爭論，純粹的思辨的、空想的、不以實驗數(shù)據(jù)為基礎(chǔ)的討論是無意義的。比如‘量子力學是否是終極理論’之類的討論是無意義的。 |
9樓2012-04-02 10:27:01
13樓2012-04-02 10:45:01
yalefield
金蟲 (文壇精英)
老漢一枚
- 應(yīng)助: 129 (高中生)
- 貴賓: 0.17
- 金幣: 21238.9
- 散金: 3440
- 紅花: 66
- 帖子: 12101
- 在線: 759.1小時
- 蟲號: 96063
- 注冊: 2005-10-07
- 專業(yè): 高等教育學
- 管轄: 計算模擬
★ ★
franch: 金幣+2, 鼓勵交流。。。。。呵呵 2012-04-02 09:58:16
franch: 金幣+2, 鼓勵交流。。。。。呵呵 2012-04-02 09:58:16
|
附件是那篇論文。 Matthew F. Pusey, Jonathan Barrett, Terry Rudolph The quantum state cannot be interpreted statistically arXiv:1111.3328v1 http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1111.3328 |
» 本帖附件資源列表
-
歡迎監(jiān)督和反饋：小木蟲僅提供交流平臺，不對該內(nèi)容負責。
本內(nèi)容由用戶自主發(fā)布，如果其內(nèi)容涉及到知識產(chǎn)權(quán)問題，其責任在于用戶本人，如對版權(quán)有異議，請聯(lián)系郵箱：xiaomuchong@tal.com - 附件 1 : 1111.3328v1.pdf
2012-04-02 02:10:55, 538.06 K
3樓2012-04-02 02:12:13
zhangguangping
木蟲 (著名寫手)
- 1ST強帖: 23
- 應(yīng)助: 71 (初中生)
- 貴賓: 0.031
- 金幣: 1973.1
- 散金: 9059
- 紅花: 79
- 帖子: 2681
- 在線: 2128.8小時
- 蟲號: 529624
- 注冊: 2008-03-20
- 性別: GG
- 專業(yè): 原子和分子物理
15樓2012-04-02 10:50:56
uuv2010
榮譽版主 (職業(yè)作家)
- 1ST強帖: 6
- 應(yīng)助: 160 (高中生)
- 貴賓: 3.14
- 金幣: 3681.7
- 散金: 5802
- 紅花: 79
- 沙發(fā): 35
- 帖子: 4560
- 在線: 916小時
- 蟲號: 966216
- 注冊: 2010-03-09
- 性別: GG
- 專業(yè): 凝聚態(tài)物性 II ：電子結(jié)構(gòu)
- 管轄: 第一性原理
22樓2012-04-02 11:19:18
uuv2010
榮譽版主 (職業(yè)作家)
- 1ST強帖: 6
- 應(yīng)助: 160 (高中生)
- 貴賓: 3.14
- 金幣: 3681.7
- 散金: 5802
- 紅花: 79
- 沙發(fā): 35
- 帖子: 4560
- 在線: 916小時
- 蟲號: 966216
- 注冊: 2010-03-09
- 性別: GG
- 專業(yè): 凝聚態(tài)物性 II ：電子結(jié)構(gòu)
- 管轄: 第一性原理
24樓2012-04-02 12:03:44
yalefield
金蟲 (文壇精英)
老漢一枚
- 應(yīng)助: 129 (高中生)
- 貴賓: 0.17
- 金幣: 21238.9
- 散金: 3440
- 紅花: 66
- 帖子: 12101
- 在線: 759.1小時
- 蟲號: 96063
- 注冊: 2005-10-07
- 專業(yè): 高等教育學
- 管轄: 計算模擬
|
Nature網(wǎng)站的報導(dǎo)： Quantum theorem shakes foundations http://www.nature.com/news/quant ... -foundations-1.9392 Nature doi:10.1038/nature.2011.9392 The wavefunction is a real physical object after all, say researchers. Eugenie Samuel Reich 17 November 2011 Mathematical device or physical fact? The elusive nature of the quantum wavefunction may be pinned down at last. At the heart of the weirdness for which the field of quantum mechanics is famous is the wavefunction, a powerful but mysterious entity that is used to determine the probabilities that quantum particles will have certain properties. Now, a preprint posted online on 14 November1 reopens the question of what the wavefunction represents — with an answer that could rock quantum theory to its core. Whereas many physicists have generally interpreted the wavefunction as a statistical tool that reflects our ignorance of the particles being measured, the authors of the latest paper argue that, instead, it is physically real. “I don't like to sound hyperbolic, but I think the word 'seismic' is likely to apply to this paper,” says Antony Valentini, a theoretical physicist specializing in quantum foundations at Clemson University in South Carolina. Valentini believes that this result may be the most important general theorem relating to the foundations of quantum mechanics since Bell’s theorem, the 1964 result in which Northern Irish physicist John Stewart Bell proved that if quantum mechanics describes real entities, it has to include mysterious “action at a distance”. Action at a distance occurs when pairs of quantum particles interact in such a way that they become entangled. But the new paper, by a trio of physicists led by Matthew Pusey at Imperial College London, presents a theorem showing that if a quantum wavefunction were purely a statistical tool, then even quantum states that are unconnected across space and time would be able to communicate with each other. As that seems very unlikely to be true, the researchers conclude that the wavefunction must be physically real after all. David Wallace, a philosopher of physics at the University of Oxford, UK, says that the theorem is the most important result in the foundations of quantum mechanics that he has seen in his 15-year professional career. “This strips away obscurity and shows you can’t have an interpretation of a quantum state as probabilistic,” he says. The debate over how to understand the wavefunction goes back to the 1920s. In the ‘Copenhagen interpretation’ pioneered by Danish physicist Niels Bohr, the wavefunction was considered a computational tool: it gave correct results when used to calculate the probability of particles having various properties, but physicists were encouraged not to look for a deeper explanation of what the wavefunction is. Albert Einstein also favoured a statistical interpretation of the wavefunction, although he thought that there had to be some other as-yet-unknown underlying reality. But others, such as Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger, considered the wavefunction, at least initially, to be a real physical object. The Copenhagen interpretation later fell out of popularity, but the idea that the wavefunction reflects what we can know about the world, rather than physical reality, has come back into vogue in the past 15 years with the rise of quantum information theory, Valentini says. Rudolph and his colleagues may put a stop to that trend. Their theorem effectively says that individual quantum systems must “know” exactly what state they have been prepared in, or the results of measurements on them would lead to results at odds with quantum mechanics. They declined to comment while their preprint is undergoing the journal-submission process, but say in their paper that their finding is similar to the notion that an individual coin being flipped in a biased way — for example, so that it comes up 'heads' six out of ten times — has the intrinsic, physical property of being biased, in contrast to the idea that the bias is simply a statistical property of many coin-flip outcomes. Quantum information Robert Spekkens, a physicist at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Canada, who has favoured a statistical interpretation of the wavefunction, says that Pusey's theorem is correct and a “fantastic” result, but that he disagrees about what conclusion should be drawn from it. He favours an interpretation in which all quantum states, including non-entangled ones, are related after all. Spekkens adds that he does expect the theorem to have broader consequences for physics, as have Bell’s and other fundamental theorems. No one foresaw in 1964 that Bell’s theorem would sow the seeds for quantum information theory and quantum cryptography — both of which rely on phenomena that aren’t possible in classical physics. Spekkens thinks this theorem may ultimately have a similar impact. “It’s very important and beautiful in its simplicity,” he says. [ Last edited by yalefield on 2012-4-2 at 02:13 ] |
2樓2012-04-02 02:08:52
 |
4樓2012-04-02 09:13:38
5樓2012-04-02 09:34:48
zhangguangping
木蟲 (著名寫手)
- 1ST強帖: 23
- 應(yīng)助: 71 (初中生)
- 貴賓: 0.031
- 金幣: 1973.1
- 散金: 9059
- 紅花: 79
- 帖子: 2681
- 在線: 2128.8小時
- 蟲號: 529624
- 注冊: 2008-03-20
- 性別: GG
- 專業(yè): 原子和分子物理
★ ★ ★
小木蟲: 金幣+0.5, 給個紅包，謝謝回帖
franch: 金幣+2, 安慰一下。。呵呵 2012-04-02 09:58:49
小木蟲: 金幣+0.5, 給個紅包，謝謝回帖
franch: 金幣+2, 安慰一下。。呵呵 2012-04-02 09:58:49
|
終于找到支持了。我在uuv的帖子里面提到波函數(shù)是一個真實量的時候，還遭到了批評呢。呵呵呵。 尤其是我說到“以后說不定可以定時定點的攔截電子”的時候，遭到了不確定性原理堅信者的批評。 我覺得現(xiàn)在量子力學的東西，很多都是假設(shè)，之所以假設(shè)，是因為沒有證據(jù)，而在這個假設(shè)的基礎(chǔ)上，得到的很多結(jié)論都能解釋現(xiàn)有結(jié)果，并且做出了一些正確的預(yù)測。所以從這個角度講，量子力學的創(chuàng)建人們很偉大，能夠猜出一些東西來。但是隨著技術(shù)的發(fā)展，認識的加深，說不定哪天會把一些問題的真面目搞明白。就像牛頓時代認為牛頓第二定律是主宰物質(zhì)運動的規(guī)律一樣，小道小車，大到天體。那個時代不曾想到會有原子的結(jié)構(gòu)，會有電子的存在，在那個世界里面，牛頓第二定律描述他們的運動顯得“蒼白無力”(不過說不定，電子的運動也是遵守牛頓第二定律的，只不過，那個時間尺度可能需要阿秒來衡量，畢竟電子也是一種物質(zhì))。等到量子力學的誕生，才解釋了一些牛頓定律沒法解決的問題. 問題是：量子力學是物質(zhì)運動描述的終點嗎？現(xiàn)在的量子力學觀點是完全對的嗎？ 答案肯定是否定的。 |
6樓2012-04-02 09:54:27
fzx2008
榮譽版主 (著名寫手)
- 1ST強帖: 9
- 應(yīng)助: 272 (大學生)
- 貴賓: 1.045
- 金幣: 21814.1
- 散金: 710
- 紅花: 33
- 沙發(fā): 1
- 帖子: 1808
- 在線: 1601小時
- 蟲號: 621341
- 注冊: 2008-10-09
- 性別: GG
- 專業(yè): 凝聚態(tài)物性 II ：電子結(jié)構(gòu)
- 管轄: 第一性原理
7樓2012-04-02 10:13:04
8樓2012-04-02 10:23:11
uuv2010
榮譽版主 (職業(yè)作家)
- 1ST強帖: 6
- 應(yīng)助: 160 (高中生)
- 貴賓: 3.14
- 金幣: 3681.7
- 散金: 5802
- 紅花: 79
- 沙發(fā): 35
- 帖子: 4560
- 在線: 916小時
- 蟲號: 966216
- 注冊: 2010-03-09
- 性別: GG
- 專業(yè): 凝聚態(tài)物性 II ：電子結(jié)構(gòu)
- 管轄: 第一性原理
10樓2012-04-02 10:35:21
相關(guān)版塊跳轉(zhuǎn)
我要訂閱樓主 yalefield 的主題更新
| 最具人氣熱帖推薦 [查看全部] | 作者 | 回/看 | 最后發(fā)表 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
[考研] 學碩274求調(diào)劑 +8 | Li李魚 2026-03-26 | 8/400 |
|
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
[考研] 壓國家一區(qū)線，求導(dǎo)師收留，有恩必謝！ +7 | 迷人的哈哈 2026-03-28 | 7/350 |
|
|
|
[考研] 317分 一志愿南理工材料工程 本科湖工大 求調(diào)劑 +6 | 芋泥小鈴鐺 2026-03-28 | 6/300 |
|
|
|
[考研] 調(diào)劑求院校招收 +4 | 鶴鯨鴿 2026-03-28 | 4/200 |
|
|
|
[考研] 求化學調(diào)劑 +4 | wulanna 2026-03-28 | 4/200 |
|
|
|
[考研] 0703一志愿9，初試成績：338，四六級已過，有科研經(jīng)歷，求調(diào)劑！ +4 | Zuhui0306 2026-03-25 | 4/200 |
|
|
[考研] 339求調(diào)劑，想調(diào)回江蘇 +6 | 烤麥芽 2026-03-27 | 8/400 |
|
|
|
[考研] 295材料工程專碩求調(diào)劑 +6 | 1428151015 2026-03-27 | 6/300 |
|
|
|
[考研] 一志愿211院校 344分 東北農(nóng)業(yè)大學生物學學碩，求調(diào)劑 +5 | 丶風雪夜歸人丶 2026-03-26 | 8/400 |
|
|
|
[考研] 334求調(diào)劑 +3 | 雨清天晴 2026-03-21 | 3/150 |
|
|
|
[考研] 286求調(diào)劑 +4 | lim0922 2026-03-26 | 4/200 |
|
|
|
[考研] 343求調(diào)劑 +4 | 贈我一本書 2026-03-23 | 4/200 |
|
|
|
[考研] 一志愿北化求調(diào)劑 +3 | Jsman 2026-03-22 | 3/150 |
|
|
|
[考研]
 085602化學工程求調(diào)劑。
+4
|
平樂樂樂 2026-03-26 | 4/200 |
|
|
|
[考研] 281求調(diào)劑 +6 | Koxui 2026-03-24 | 7/350 |
|
|
|
[考研] 0854人工智能方向招收調(diào)劑 +4 | 章小魚567 2026-03-24 | 4/200 |
|
|
|
[考研] 318求調(diào)劑 +5 | plum李子 2026-03-21 | 8/400 |
|
|
|
[考研] 材料專碩找調(diào)劑 +5 | 哈哈哈吼吼吼哈 2026-03-23 | 5/250 |
|
|
|
[考研] 277分求調(diào)劑，跨調(diào)材料 +3 | 考研調(diào)劑lxh 2026-03-24 | 3/150 |
|
|
|
[考研] 280分求調(diào)劑 一志愿085802 +4 | PUMPT 2026-03-22 | 7/350 |
|